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	<title>Comments on: Call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye</title>
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		<title>By: MattM</title>
		<link>http://www.protectionist.net/2011/08/31/call-some-place-paradise-kiss-it-goodbye/#comment-63587</link>
		<dc:creator>MattM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2011 12:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.protectionist.net/?p=3655#comment-63587</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Leigh and yes, perfectly understandable sentiment given the long history of betrayal from successive parties.  I have recently been reflecting on an idea I was reading about (sorry, I can&#039;t remember where but if anyone has the link, please share).  But the idea was to allow people to directly vote on policy.  We have a situation currently where we vote for a party based on their stance, and then have no say when they backflip - e.g. Gillard on Carbon Tax and reducing Immigration to responsible levels.  The downside of course is how to manage this such that policies are properly and honestly debated given how easily a perspective may be manipulated, this is probably not a simple thing.  But it is interesting looking at some of the intelligence squared debates and how perhaps this might represent a more equitable forum for debating policy &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.iq2oz.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.iq2oz.com/&lt;/a&gt;.   
 
In any case, I think the phrase &quot;everything in moderation&quot; is the best guide.  Making little changes and little efforts and not expecting change to happen overnight - indeed, while there is increasing urgency, change will almost always be slow to catch up.  It might be considered that it&#039;s a race between deciding to change against the deadline where our freedom to decide disappears. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Leigh and yes, perfectly understandable sentiment given the long history of betrayal from successive parties.  I have recently been reflecting on an idea I was reading about (sorry, I can&#039;t remember where but if anyone has the link, please share).  But the idea was to allow people to directly vote on policy.  We have a situation currently where we vote for a party based on their stance, and then have no say when they backflip &#8211; e.g. Gillard on Carbon Tax and reducing Immigration to responsible levels.  The downside of course is how to manage this such that policies are properly and honestly debated given how easily a perspective may be manipulated, this is probably not a simple thing.  But it is interesting looking at some of the intelligence squared debates and how perhaps this might represent a more equitable forum for debating policy <a href="http://www.iq2oz.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.iq2oz.com/</a>.  </p>
<p>In any case, I think the phrase &quot;everything in moderation&quot; is the best guide.  Making little changes and little efforts and not expecting change to happen overnight &#8211; indeed, while there is increasing urgency, change will almost always be slow to catch up.  It might be considered that it&#039;s a race between deciding to change against the deadline where our freedom to decide disappears. </p>
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		<title>By: VIV</title>
		<link>http://www.protectionist.net/2011/08/31/call-some-place-paradise-kiss-it-goodbye/#comment-63532</link>
		<dc:creator>VIV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2011 16:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.protectionist.net/?p=3655#comment-63532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MATTM,thanks for your positive response.As I understand it,of the refugees sent to Nauro,50% ended up in Australia,30% went home and the rest endedup in other countries,but it achieved its main goal-it stopped the boats. Yes-Howard was decieving us in stopping the boats,whilst still allowing the third world hordes in the front door,then boasting as if he&#039;d just stopped all immigration. To see where &quot;cultural enrichment&#039; is steering us,check out the front page of todays Daily Telegraph. A 19 year old Afghan migrant searching for teenage girls to abduct or rape because &#039;he didn&#039;t understand it was wrong&#039;. Says a lot of their attitude to women. Despite offending repeatedly,this guy is still at large. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MATTM,thanks for your positive response.As I understand it,of the refugees sent to Nauro,50% ended up in Australia,30% went home and the rest endedup in other countries,but it achieved its main goal-it stopped the boats. Yes-Howard was decieving us in stopping the boats,whilst still allowing the third world hordes in the front door,then boasting as if he&#039;d just stopped all immigration. To see where &quot;cultural enrichment&#039; is steering us,check out the front page of todays Daily Telegraph. A 19 year old Afghan migrant searching for teenage girls to abduct or rape because &#039;he didn&#039;t understand it was wrong&#039;. Says a lot of their attitude to women. Despite offending repeatedly,this guy is still at large. </p>
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		<title>By: MattM</title>
		<link>http://www.protectionist.net/2011/08/31/call-some-place-paradise-kiss-it-goodbye/#comment-63254</link>
		<dc:creator>MattM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 21:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.protectionist.net/?p=3655#comment-63254</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thanks for your comment Viv.  I agree wholeheartedly that asylum seeker processing should take place closer to the strife - as such, the UN should provide the facilities for Asylum seekers and we two boats back to these facilities.  The UN will be far less easily manipulated by the non-genuine refugees.   
 
What is perhaps most distressing is that a large proportion of asylum seekers are fleeing man made &quot;tragedies&quot; by simply overpopulating their countries - from this all manner of tensions arise - particularly with young high testosterone men. 
 
Having said that, we have a far more pressing issue.  The labour and liberal parties have for decades adopted a policy of high-immigration - with each successive government, immigration has been steadily increased to the tune of current targets of over 200,000. 
 
Howard was actually extremely duplicitous - may the fleas of a thousand camels rest under his armpits. But then, Hawke, Keating, Costello, Downer, Rudd, Fraser were just as bad - they&#039;ve all been working towards facilitating the same end goal - to surrend Australia to the TNCs. Howard pretended to be tough on immigration with the Pacific Solution while opening the floodgates to migrants and further, as I understand it, not a single asylum seeker from Naru was refused entry.  
 
It is very hard to say whether Australia perhaps had any say in this.  It may be we might have faced a similar fate to Kosovo had our politicians tried to retain Australia&#039;s sovereignty - I just don&#039;t know.  But, now with our backs progressively pushed against the wall, we are increasingly left with less choice. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for your comment Viv.  I agree wholeheartedly that asylum seeker processing should take place closer to the strife &#8211; as such, the UN should provide the facilities for Asylum seekers and we two boats back to these facilities.  The UN will be far less easily manipulated by the non-genuine refugees.  </p>
<p>What is perhaps most distressing is that a large proportion of asylum seekers are fleeing man made &quot;tragedies&quot; by simply overpopulating their countries &#8211; from this all manner of tensions arise &#8211; particularly with young high testosterone men.</p>
<p>Having said that, we have a far more pressing issue.  The labour and liberal parties have for decades adopted a policy of high-immigration &#8211; with each successive government, immigration has been steadily increased to the tune of current targets of over 200,000.</p>
<p>Howard was actually extremely duplicitous &#8211; may the fleas of a thousand camels rest under his armpits. But then, Hawke, Keating, Costello, Downer, Rudd, Fraser were just as bad &#8211; they&#039;ve all been working towards facilitating the same end goal &#8211; to surrend Australia to the TNCs. Howard pretended to be tough on immigration with the Pacific Solution while opening the floodgates to migrants and further, as I understand it, not a single asylum seeker from Naru was refused entry. </p>
<p>It is very hard to say whether Australia perhaps had any say in this.  It may be we might have faced a similar fate to Kosovo had our politicians tried to retain Australia&#039;s sovereignty &#8211; I just don&#039;t know.  But, now with our backs progressively pushed against the wall, we are increasingly left with less choice. </p>
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		<title>By: MattM</title>
		<link>http://www.protectionist.net/2011/08/31/call-some-place-paradise-kiss-it-goodbye/#comment-63253</link>
		<dc:creator>MattM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 21:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.protectionist.net/?p=3655#comment-63253</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for posting the link Michael, the poster R.Ambrose Raven actually nailed the more underlying issue quite well: 
 
R.Ambrose Raven : 
31 Aug 2011 11:59:47pm 
Danny, like many others, is obviously assuming that manufacturing and households can be saved simply by working smarter and harder within the current economic rationalist ideological paradigm. Yet the labour force is increasingly being polarised between the under-worked and under-paid on the one hand, and the over-worked and exhausted on the other. 
 
Further, that economic rationalist paradigm has for the past three decades been successfully imposed or peddled in countries across the developing world by the IMF, the World Bank and its regional derivatives and donor agencies alike, and in advanced countries such as Australia by the likes of Thatcher, Reagan, and Hawke.  
 
&#8220;Free&#8221; trade snake-oil merchants promote that economic ideology as promoting individualism, free enterprise, lowered taxes, deregulated economies and labour markets, and small government, the idealisation of &#8220;free&#8221; (actually meaning unregulated) markets, a servile State, and privileges the profit-seeking sector at the expense of public interests and welfare. In truth, it elevates greed above future private interests as well as above current and future collective community interest. 
 
Manufacturing is indeed an important means of countering the increasing polarisation of wealth and income. Australia&#039;s ratio of household debt to disposable income is the highest in the world. We therefore have the furthest to fall, with extensive government intervention being essential if great and widespread hardship is to be avoided. 
 
Many say that &quot;Australia was riding the boom with no thought to the future.&quot; Yet it is the rich and powerful, and the politicians that they&#039;ve bought who could do most to prevent such a situation, but who will ferociously oppose remedial action because it will reduced their super-profits. Workers in the resources sector are now, foolishly, often the most vociferous campaigners against redistributive measures such as the mining tax, just as timber mill workers were often the most vociferous supporters of native logging. 
 
Australia&#8217;s focus on protectionism and wage equality arose from the external shocks of the Great War, the Depression, and the Pacific War. Those leaders emphasised the importance of nation-building and social balance for the maintenance of economic and political sovereignty and stability. However, that gradually ceased to be policy after 1970, when the leaders of those generations retired, to be replaced by those without any such beliefs.  
 
Government Business Enterprises are also an important economic and social tool, both to sustain industries such as manufacturing and to ensure better redistribution of wealth and economic power. If the community service obligations of the (pre-flog-off) GBEs were brought to account, their financial performance would be at least equal any profit-seeker. Dividends would also have been paid to States and the Commonwealth. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for posting the link Michael, the poster R.Ambrose Raven actually nailed the more underlying issue quite well:</p>
<p>R.Ambrose Raven :</p>
<p>31 Aug 2011 11:59:47pm</p>
<p>Danny, like many others, is obviously assuming that manufacturing and households can be saved simply by working smarter and harder within the current economic rationalist ideological paradigm. Yet the labour force is increasingly being polarised between the under-worked and under-paid on the one hand, and the over-worked and exhausted on the other.</p>
<p>Further, that economic rationalist paradigm has for the past three decades been successfully imposed or peddled in countries across the developing world by the IMF, the World Bank and its regional derivatives and donor agencies alike, and in advanced countries such as Australia by the likes of Thatcher, Reagan, and Hawke. </p>
<p>&ldquo;Free&rdquo; trade snake-oil merchants promote that economic ideology as promoting individualism, free enterprise, lowered taxes, deregulated economies and labour markets, and small government, the idealisation of &ldquo;free&rdquo; (actually meaning unregulated) markets, a servile State, and privileges the profit-seeking sector at the expense of public interests and welfare. In truth, it elevates greed above future private interests as well as above current and future collective community interest.</p>
<p>Manufacturing is indeed an important means of countering the increasing polarisation of wealth and income. Australia&#039;s ratio of household debt to disposable income is the highest in the world. We therefore have the furthest to fall, with extensive government intervention being essential if great and widespread hardship is to be avoided.</p>
<p>Many say that &quot;Australia was riding the boom with no thought to the future.&quot; Yet it is the rich and powerful, and the politicians that they&#039;ve bought who could do most to prevent such a situation, but who will ferociously oppose remedial action because it will reduced their super-profits. Workers in the resources sector are now, foolishly, often the most vociferous campaigners against redistributive measures such as the mining tax, just as timber mill workers were often the most vociferous supporters of native logging.</p>
<p>Australia&rsquo;s focus on protectionism and wage equality arose from the external shocks of the Great War, the Depression, and the Pacific War. Those leaders emphasised the importance of nation-building and social balance for the maintenance of economic and political sovereignty and stability. However, that gradually ceased to be policy after 1970, when the leaders of those generations retired, to be replaced by those without any such beliefs. </p>
<p>Government Business Enterprises are also an important economic and social tool, both to sustain industries such as manufacturing and to ensure better redistribution of wealth and economic power. If the community service obligations of the (pre-flog-off) GBEs were brought to account, their financial performance would be at least equal any profit-seeker. Dividends would also have been paid to States and the Commonwealth. </p>
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		<title>By: Paul Kemp</title>
		<link>http://www.protectionist.net/2011/08/31/call-some-place-paradise-kiss-it-goodbye/#comment-63163</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Kemp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 20:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.protectionist.net/?p=3655#comment-63163</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Australian people need to wake up now, its ten minutes to midnight for this country, if we don&#039;t stand up now, it will be over for Australia as an Anglo Saxon based nation, forever! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Australian people need to wake up now, its ten minutes to midnight for this country, if we don&#039;t stand up now, it will be over for Australia as an Anglo Saxon based nation, forever! </p>
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		<title>By: VIV</title>
		<link>http://www.protectionist.net/2011/08/31/call-some-place-paradise-kiss-it-goodbye/#comment-62770</link>
		<dc:creator>VIV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 19:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.protectionist.net/?p=3655#comment-62770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wednesday,August 31st was a sad day for Australia when the high court prevented the government from deporting illegals to Malaysia.Who&#039;s running this country,that treacherous leech,David Manne,or the government? Now,any deterrent is better than no deterrent,which is now the case. We&#039;ll go from three boats a week to five a day.I&#039;m so angry that I&#039;m sick. Gillard needs to do two things-reopen Nauro,and inform Malaysia that we cannot take the 4000 as we can no longer send the 800. Of course we&#039;ll end up with the lot,at OUR expense. Each of them will have ten kids and we&#039;ll be a Muslim state in my children&#039;s lifetime-a transition most Australians DON&#039;T WANT! Its time for us all to gather at detention centres in every state,with placards and loud voices,and inform these people that they are not wanted! Muslims despise us....we&#039;re immoral infidels,they hate everything we stand for,yet invade us on a huge scale,bludge off the system,increase crime statistics and use our democracy for their own gain. Where are we heading? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wednesday,August 31st was a sad day for Australia when the high court prevented the government from deporting illegals to Malaysia.Who&#039;s running this country,that treacherous leech,David Manne,or the government? Now,any deterrent is better than no deterrent,which is now the case. We&#039;ll go from three boats a week to five a day.I&#039;m so angry that I&#039;m sick. Gillard needs to do two things-reopen Nauro,and inform Malaysia that we cannot take the 4000 as we can no longer send the 800. Of course we&#039;ll end up with the lot,at OUR expense. Each of them will have ten kids and we&#039;ll be a Muslim state in my children&#039;s lifetime-a transition most Australians DON&#039;T WANT! Its time for us all to gather at detention centres in every state,with placards and loud voices,and inform these people that they are not wanted! Muslims despise us&#8230;.we&#039;re immoral infidels,they hate everything we stand for,yet invade us on a huge scale,bludge off the system,increase crime statistics and use our democracy for their own gain. Where are we heading? </p>
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		<title>By: Anita Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.protectionist.net/2011/08/31/call-some-place-paradise-kiss-it-goodbye/#comment-62580</link>
		<dc:creator>Anita Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 07:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.protectionist.net/?p=3655#comment-62580</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you Matt for your time ,effort and thoughts on this dubject.These facts would be great to hear on Q&amp;A. The APP does need to become a stronger voice. I live in Far North Qld and I don&#039;t think many peole have heard about it. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Matt for your time ,effort and thoughts on this dubject.These facts would be great to hear on Q&amp;A. The APP does need to become a stronger voice. I live in Far North Qld and I don&#039;t think many peole have heard about it. </p>
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		<title>By: leigh</title>
		<link>http://www.protectionist.net/2011/08/31/call-some-place-paradise-kiss-it-goodbye/#comment-62395</link>
		<dc:creator>leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 01:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.protectionist.net/?p=3655#comment-62395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are exactly right when you say most Australians dont care about Australia and what is happening. People in general would rather go about their daily lives in carefree bliss than confront these problems or even think about them. Its left me quite disheartened and its why i don&#039;t bother to take a more active role in matters of politics. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are exactly right when you say most Australians dont care about Australia and what is happening. People in general would rather go about their daily lives in carefree bliss than confront these problems or even think about them. Its left me quite disheartened and its why i don&#039;t bother to take a more active role in matters of politics. </p>
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		<title>By: Michael R</title>
		<link>http://www.protectionist.net/2011/08/31/call-some-place-paradise-kiss-it-goodbye/#comment-62306</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.protectionist.net/?p=3655#comment-62306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I buy organic when I can, it tastes better and you know it&#039;s Aussie made and hopefully the farmer gets a decent price. 
 
Check this out, the ABC published a protectionist article by an Aussie professor Danny Samson: 
 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2863686.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2863686.html&lt;/a&gt; 
 
&lt;em&gt;We are close to the tipping point in a number of industries, whereby we will dip below the critical mass and permanently destroy capacity and wealth if we let this current trends continue... 
 
Once manufacturing slips below critical mass, it will accelerate away, and then we will live pretty well until the wonderful mining miracle slows down, after which it will be game over for our standard of living. 
 
Before we say it cannot be done, lets please study Germany, Sweden and other high-cost countries that successfully develop, create and export healthy amounts of manufactured goods! It can be done, but it needs visionary leadership from the start. I strongly care about the core role that manufacturing industry has in our wonderful economy and country and I want all our governments and our captains of industry to work together to support and encourage it.&lt;/em&gt; 
 
What a refreshing change from the media&#039;s usual suicidal paralysis by blind adherence to free-trade dogma. 
 
Right now our economy is being run by the whim of global demand and supply. Surely we can offer a more predictable and controllable solution other than the whim of the invisible hand. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I buy organic when I can, it tastes better and you know it&#039;s Aussie made and hopefully the farmer gets a decent price.</p>
<p>Check this out, the ABC published a protectionist article by an Aussie professor Danny Samson:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2863686.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2863686.html</a></p>
<p><em>We are close to the tipping point in a number of industries, whereby we will dip below the critical mass and permanently destroy capacity and wealth if we let this current trends continue&#8230;</p>
<p>Once manufacturing slips below critical mass, it will accelerate away, and then we will live pretty well until the wonderful mining miracle slows down, after which it will be game over for our standard of living.</p>
<p>Before we say it cannot be done, lets please study Germany, Sweden and other high-cost countries that successfully develop, create and export healthy amounts of manufactured goods! It can be done, but it needs visionary leadership from the start. I strongly care about the core role that manufacturing industry has in our wonderful economy and country and I want all our governments and our captains of industry to work together to support and encourage it.</em></p>
<p>What a refreshing change from the media&#039;s usual suicidal paralysis by blind adherence to free-trade dogma.</p>
<p>Right now our economy is being run by the whim of global demand and supply. Surely we can offer a more predictable and controllable solution other than the whim of the invisible hand. </p>
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